Am I out of touch?

A while ago, RobSays remarked upon this response to the decline in Red Pill discussion among twenty-somethings:

2020-10-05 (2)

It seems like history is repeating.

Perhaps this is the human condition: each generation must seek wisdom from the experience of previous generations but runs the risk of receiving advice that is out of date.

As time passes and the world changes more rapidly, this risk rises to a near certainty.

Many members of Gen-X were finding themselves adrift after following Boomer advice: be yourself, be a gentleman, get a university degree, buy a house.

This was not malevolent on the part of our representative Boomer. He completed a degree in business and got a job by sending a resume to a corporation that included a ripper cover letter that used all the tips in How To Win Friends and Influence People.

He bought a nice suburban home surrounded by white people that cost three times his annual income. He was able to support a wife and three children.

Being a steady and hardworking guy was enough to attract a mate. Now he’s wondering what the hell is wrong with young lads today.

When I was such a young lad, I had to find out what the hell was wrong with me by seeking out red pill secrets independently.

Now a lot of Millennials and Gen Z seems to have lost that wisdom. Or have they? Perhaps they’ve perused the Roissy archives and busted some moves without success. Maybe Gen X advice is now out of touch.

This is plausible for a number of reasons:

Rapid change and the online shift

During the tail-end of the PUA boom, the situation was evolving rapidly. An approach that worked well in 2010 would not work so well in 2012 with girls becoming more accustomed to online dating and would be completely outdated and creepy in 2014 once Tinder had become mainstream and talking to a stranger in public could get you arrested.

This unfolded differently in different countries, but many practitioners in many places reported that previously effective moves were no longer getting results.

The Great Awokening

This new religious movement took off in 2013 and has been progressing rapidly since then.

Previous to that year, feminism was a big thing but understanding shit tests and the true desires of women were enough to overcome anti-male conditioning.

Since 2013 it’s been getting harder. You need to be very careful around university-indoctrinated Western women, whether you are approaching or in a relationship. The risk is not rejection – it is denunciation. See also MeToo.


Until very recently, extremely few women engaged in any form of sex work. In terms of relationship red flags, it was rare enough that you didn’t really need to think about it.

Suddenly, that has all changed. Not only do a significant proportion of women seeking a relationship now have some compensated dating in their past or some online nudies for sale; some have become accustomed to being compensated and now expect it.

Even if they haven’t taken the ticket, they know it’s there. The option might be enough to alter their bargaining position in a relationship; make them raise their standards unreasonably high. Why should an average young woman date Mr Average gratis when another Mr Average online is willing to stump up cash? Mr Average without a short-time dowry may no longer be good enough.

After all, these days there are men who will pay simply to interact with a woman online. One man paid $2,500 for a Skype chat with Belle Delphine and many more stumped up $30 for what was supposedly her bathwater.

Not all women can generate income like that, but if it’s possible for an attractive lady to get paid just for interacting online, when she does so for free with some poor sap trying to score a normal date, the cash thing will be at the back of her mind and the fellow messaging for free had better be entertaining, and hot.

The process towards this point was gradual, then sudden. Yes, like going broke.

First there was the 1960s free love movement. Then in the 2000s, women became more interested in getting an education and career before dating seriously so there was a shift from serial monogamy to casual dating and hook-ups.

The next step was Tinder, which normalized meeting strangers online and having sex with them a short time later with limited preliminaries.

The final step (so far) was the popularization of sugar baby sites and OnlyFans. Once you see this progression it starts to make more sense: the jump from 1950s kissing only on the third date to pro sugar baby is extreme but the jump from Tinder hookups with strangers to similar hookups with a few gifts thrown in is not so great. Nor is the jump from sending badboys nudes to offering pics online for cash.

Marginal effect

None of this is to say that walking up to a girl in the mall and asking where the pet shop is will never work.

Change happens in the margins.

In 2008, that approach was more likely to bear fruit because fewer men were doing it.

In 2020 it is less likely to succeed because women are bored with being approached, fewer go to malls, women’s lives have moved online and dating compensation is now more likely to be expected.

A gigachad might still pull off the ole’ pet shot caper but I can understand why some chaps who see themselves as having lower SMV might have given up for now and be directing their energies instead to an online fantasy world.


I’m not sure about anything I’ve written here. I’m so out of touch I don’t even know how out of touch I am. I departed the West long ago.

What’s going on out there? How are things for the young guns? Do I have any readers in their 20s? Let me know.

Related: Thinking Ape points out that there is no saturation point for intimacy (images are safe for work but commentary contains adult themes).


  1. Wight of Leeds · December 8, 2020

    I’m a 21 year old Christian man. Absurdity is par for the course in the current “environment”. An average young man has to put in a disproportionate amount of work to achieve even a subpar woman. Only the top echelon of physically attractive men are capable of attaining a woman with ease. Most of these men just bang as many as they can, as long as they can, and since most women are only interested in marrying one of these top-tier men, they get frustrated when they can’t, which causes them to turn the blame to the average and below-average man.

    Of course none of the above is really anything new…I bet similar descriptions could be made of many different times in history.

    What is new is the assortment of ways in which a woman can now obtain practically anything she wants.
    Want a quick bang? Tinder, Bumble, etc…
    Want some easy cash? Stream yourself talking into a microphone on Twitch or Youtube.
    Want some easier cash? Go on OnlyFans and post some bikini pics. You don’t even have to do nudes!

    It gets worse. Check this out, if you can stomach it:
    That’s FinDom. It’s a “fetish” where the woman takes the man’s money and insults him. That’s it. Men willingly submit themselves to this.

    Entire communities of men have formed where the single bonding element is the lack of a wife or girlfriend. Men like this often cope with video games, anime, porn, etc.
    “I don’t blame them!” I cry from atop my high horse. But I, a strong man, never cope with any of these things. I am a STRONG MAN. Yeah…that’s right…

    I could go on, but I probably shouldn’t. It’s possible that I’m just unaware of how bad things were in previous generations, but it’s equally possible that I’m not. That’s my opinion on the subject.

    Liked by 3 people

    • dickycone · December 8, 2020

      I’m just a little shy of 50 and although I never had much “game” I was blessed with height and decent bone structure, and therefore I had some success with women when I was single. I found the PUA/manosphere world relatively late in life, but I still keep up with it because it’s interesting and, at least to some extent, useful in understanding the culture and what’s really going on around you. Thinking back to the 1980s and 1990s when I was a young guy and totally clueless about women’s nature, it seems like back then about 80% of guys were equally clueless but would still eventually end up with at least an OK girlfriend who was reasonably cute and pleasant. Only about the lowest 20% of men (the obese, very short guys and other genetic misfits, mental cases, etc.) ended up as what we’d call “incels” nowadays. I get the strong impression that this 80/20 ratio is indeed inverted in 2020, and that most young guys now correctly see getting that acceptable girlfriend who was more-or-less a given in my day as a major accomplishment.

      You also note correctly that women are not ultimately happy with the state of the dating market and blame the average and below average man. What does the modern, college-educated young western white woman despise more than the Neo-Nazis and KKK members she assures us are everywhere even though we never see them? Incels. She loathes them with a firery hatred that’s actually frightening when you see it expressed in its full fury. When you see young women talk about incels online you get the impression that they’d happily see them rounded up and shipped to camps never to return.

      Sure, there were problems between men and women in my day and my mom and dad’s day, but things seem much worse now and I don’t think they’ve ever been bad in this way before. This is because the things that make them so, Internet and social media, didn’t used to exist. Just look at that pic of Belle Delphin with her crossed eyes and tongue out in the Thinking Ape video. I try not to throw around the adjectives “satanic” and “demonic” like they’re thrown around in the current manifestation of RVF and the Christian dissident right, but I think there’s really something inherently evil there on a metaphysical level, and it’s a new kind of evil.

      Liked by 6 people

      • Kentucky Headhunter · December 8, 2020

        I’m a few years older than dicky, but yeah, in the 80’s college girls were still wanting to get married, “ring by Spring”, rather than getting prepared for a career. Most guys could still find a reasonably attractive, reasonably mentally stable girl to pair up with. I’m pretty sure that a young guy today transported back to 1986 would think he’d actually been beamed to another planet.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Kentucky Headhunter · December 8, 2020

        I don’t think Belle is evil. I consider her Lawful-Neutral. “Whether good or bad, these are the rules now. I can get paid for little to no effort by playing by these rules, so why not?”


        • Nikolai Vladivostok · December 9, 2020

          I knew nothing about her until doing research for this article.
          To some extent I can’t help respect the grift. There’s art in her makeup, costumes, acting, trolling. I suspect she has a very high IQ.
          She’s more a sign of the times than a creator of them.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Nikolai Vladivostok · December 9, 2020

        I think I was in that category of useless guys who ended up with a gf by default because in the early 2000s most girls still wanted a steady bf.
        These days many don’t so useless guys are no longer saved by maths.


    • ray · December 9, 2020

      ‘That’s FinDom. It’s a “fetish” where the woman takes the man’s money and insults him. That’s it. Men willingly submit themselves to this.’

      Men don’t have God any more. They have to submit to someone, and idolize someone, so all that really remains is women.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Wolf · December 10, 2020

      Even the guys who can bang slews of sluts are often disgusted by the whole thing. See the author “Delicious Tacos” for example. Yet they have to keep chasing ass because men’s sex drive has become so amplified due to the hypersexualization pervasive in our culture. You can’t the shut the thing off. Most men spend all their prime years sniffing snatch like my dog when his bitch is in heat. But he only suffers about once a month.

      You can imagine alternatives. In the novel Submission by Houellebecq, the character remarks how things have gotten more tranquil once Islam has taken over.


    • overgrownhobbit · December 10, 2020

      The based Gen-X women are trying to figure out how in the blazing hell that is modern neo-barb America* to create a virtual Almacks. We have gone to the trouble of raising healthy, sexually continent daughters who can bake and cook and sew, and know enough Latin, calculus, history and writing to homeschool their children… And its flabby soy-boy gamma slut-boys as far as the eye can see. A young man needs to be capable of giving you grandkids, protecting them (and your daughter) and being the rock that allows your daughter to be a loving, gentle, wife and mother.

      And the red-pilled man-hos don’t seem up to the task either; though one cannot blame them for choosing that path. They’re still massively less awful than the gamma-chans.

      I was thinking about organizing a monthly meet up of the Guns & Samplers Circle, for Young Men and Women of Quality. Shooting, survival gardening, hand-crafting, theological discussion, and barbeque;before the CCP Herpes shut us down. According to my parents, who ran a successful one, the good food and personal interaction is critical.

      *The evil you perceive is not new. Scratch the surface of any older pre-woke history of the Celts, Greeks, or anthropology and you’ll find the same thing. Christian culture aka Western Civilization gradually squashed it, but people imagined they could figure out how to have the bennies of a high trust, worst-female-and-male-qualities-reined-in, innovative European society without the demands of the Christian God, and the annoyance of His stupider priest class. Mainly for either the usury or the seXXors, but not always. This *should* have worked great if said God did not exist. If He does, then it plays out as well as I HATE you daddy! You are ruining my life! You suck! …. Now pay my cell phone bill. would with any alpha Father.


  2. Kentucky Headhunter · December 8, 2020

    That flabby 4 is stunned, STUNNED she didn’t get rich by getting on OnlyFans.

    How in the world she got the idea in her head that loads of men would pay $20/month to see her saggy/baggy carcass is a complete puzzle to someone who grew up in the 70’s/80’s.

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Gunner Q · December 9, 2020

    I try to stay hip to modern culture but for serious, all they do is reboot muh Eighties. Ghostbusters, again?!

    For years now, I’ve watched California hollow out. The parks and beaches didn’t get used. People don’t walk on the sidewalk even in good weather. Everybody was shut inside and refusing to take vacations long before the Coof-downs started. I think that’s part of why the lockdowns were accepted so quietly, because people weren’t going out anyway.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. Marriagesexandmore · December 9, 2020

    50yo Gen Xer. Your analysis is spot on. I got with my wife in high school, therefore never really dated or needed game to attract women. However, most married men who have miserable sex lives need to learn that game works on your wife too. You just have to tweak it to fit your situation. Yeah its’s work, but it beats divorce rape and jerking off every night… Hell, you might even find out you like your wife when she’s happy you aren’t “Happy wife happy life” guy. Wouldn’t that be some shit? Can’t imagine online dating, but I suppose that’s the way it’s gone now. I’m out of touch for sure…

    Liked by 1 person

  5. freemattpodcast · December 9, 2020

    “After all, these days there are men who will pay simply to interact with a woman online.”

    This is sad because that this was prevalent in Japan decades ago but it was those fortune teller chicks in these out of the way clubs. Now, they dont even leave the house. And it has spread to the formerly manly American male.

    Liked by 2 people

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